Why the 3 C's of Business Communication are so Critical

The Three ’C’s of Business Communication” are crucial to an internal or external communication structure in all businesses, no matter the industry or the vertical. Communication and understanding, or the lack thereof, is either beneficial or detrimental. The key is to elevate people and have a well-defined purpose.

“Justification subverts your own growth.”
- Brian Burkhart


In today’s episode of Down The Rabbit Hole, your host, Rob Turley, Co-Founder & Co-CEO at White Rabbit Intel, delves deep into the mind of Brian Burkhart who is a master of communications and public speaking. Brian and Rob talk about how mindset, business communication, and “The Three ’C’s of Business Communication” are all connected to one another and drive a business (or a person) to the highest level of success and personal/organizational development. It’s not what you know, it’s who you know, AND how well you can communicate with them. Looking in to see out is so important. Understanding and accepting the problem is the first step to recovery.

Key Takeaways

Airs this Thursday, 06-10-2021 @10:00-11:00 AM EST

The Three ’C’s of Business Communication

Clarity, conviction, and connection. When communication is broken, it’s often one of the three ’C’s, and one ‘C’ failing usually leads to the other three backfiring.

The best presenters all have something in common

Presenters like Steve Jobs are obsessive about what? About their audience. Sure they may not be the most tolerable people in an intimate situation, but speaking to the audience FOR the audience creates the best possible outcome.

Do not allow unawareness to control your success

Unawareness is a scourge upon a person or a business’s effectiveness to communicate. One must look in to be able to see out with clarity. How well are you communicating with the people around you?

Your business must have a well-defined purpose

The purpose your business stands for should not be process or product-oriented. It should be almost a meta-purpose. The reason you exist. It goes much deeper than the superficial. It is not “what you do,” it’s “why you do it.”

About Our Guest

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At the heart of almost every professional sales process is the actual sales presentation, or pitch, itself. Long or short, highly technical or simply skimming the surface, sales presentations are unique, critical opportunities to create trust, connection, and understanding. Do this well, and suddenly hitting quota becomes easy. Struggle along and soon you’ll be wondering if sales are the right occupation for you! Here’s the good news, sales presentations are a learnable skill. The best ones are rooted in brain science that works no matter the industry, nor audience. And best yet, once you know the secrets to success, you may even find these pitch opportunities to be downright fun. Brian is the Founder and Chief Word Guy at SquarePlanet Presentations, a Phoenix, AZ firm dedicated to “Elevating People” by helping individuals, teams and enterprise clients improve their pitch game. He’s been at this for decades. Literally.


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Hey everybody, how's it going? This is Rob Turley. You're hosted down the rabbit hole podcast. I'm the co-founder co-CEO at white rabbit Intel. It's a little artificial intelligence company where you can work smarter instead of harder. Right? So today I have a very special guest with me. I've been very excited to do this podcast because this guy is brilliant. He also has just a glorious attitude and personality, which is one of my favorite things in people is the personality probably the most attractive feature in anybody, no matter who. So today I have Brian Burkhart. He's an incredible guy he's been on. God knows how many tech docs, Ted talks, excuse me, he's been a part of so many different things. He has a book that is incredible. You should give it a read. He will, that'll be on the end credits and everything. speaker Speaker 2 · 00:53 He'll tell you where to find that and all that good stuff. And, he's worked with several teams that went through shark tank. If you're not familiar, that's where the entrepreneurs go to get ridiculed by a very wealthy people. It's fantastic. I love the show because sometimes you see some stuff on there. Like how did you even get accepted into this prophet? It's too funny. So, Brian, please, speaker Speaker 3 · 01:14 Rob. Don't worry, man. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be with you today. I love the intro and let me just make a couple of things clear. I have coached people 26 times specifically on their Ted talks. We've had 10 teams on shark tank, hundreds of entrepreneurs who have had helped with raising funds. We've helped them with their pitch and clearly no surprise, oh, gazillions. That's an official of course, empirical number of salespeople, sales organizations, helping them with their sales pitch. It all starts with our core belief, both me as a founder, but certainly my from square planet. We believe in elevating people. The work that I do Rob, it's about really giving people resources to combat the problem of broken business communications. The truth of the matter is people suck and it is the number one soft skill. speaker Speaker 3 · 02:07 According to Harvard to make us a better individual within any organization is the ability to communicate from email to a presentation. You name it. If we can't talk our way at all out of wet paper, we're in deep trouble. That is unfortunately the status quo for most insofar firm exists to help elevate people to better than they've ever been before. That's a long way of me saying I really appreciate the chance to be on your podcast. And of course, you. speaker Speaker 2 · 02:34 Know, we're fraternity brothers, sorry. Yeah, yeah. The different chapters, but it's all the same right. speaker Speaker 3 · 02:40 Different decades, right? Yes. speaker Speaker 2 · 02:43 I just want you to hold gathering out in Maryland, where it's, people from the ages in their sixties, all the way down to their twenties. We get together until the summer dual. It's a great time, but I like what you said with the communication thing, because my God is the most broken system. Like what Jesus, that old saying, it's not what it's who, well, I would disagree because it's missing something. It's not what it's who, sure. What's, helps drive you there, but you have to take action on it, but who is great, but you have to be able to communicate what you need, what you desire and what your ask is properly. If the communication's not there, I don't care if every single person who's ever lived, if you can not communicate well, it is absolutely useless because they will not help you. speaker Speaker 2 · 03:28 They will not help you drive your vision and you need to have a very deeply ingrained purpose driving it behind it, right. speaker Speaker 3 · 03:35 You're a thousand percent, right. It gets really interesting and deep this stuff can be very heady. I'll give you a quick story. One of our clients is the number of years ago when I was still based in Chicago. I'm now in Phoenix. One of our clients was a really incredible organization, billions with a B of annual revenue. The woman that ran the place was just one of my most favorite people on the planet. She was a spectacular is a spectacular lady. She's charismatic, she's warm, she's deeply intellectual, super smart, but she's also a lot introverted. There were tons of reports about her doing things like walking around the office, multiple floors, large group. speaker Speaker 3 · 04:19 She would do things like get on an elevator with other members of the team and not a word would be said, she would look down, she might look at her phone. The perception was that she was either a loof cold, speaker Speaker 2 · 04:32 Cold, speaker Speaker 3 · 04:34 Cold hearted, any of the above, none of which were true. One of the things that we worked on was the notion that when she would do things like get on an elevator and not say a word, she was actually communicating. It's not always what you say. There's a lot to it. It's one of those kinds of things. When I say business communications is broken, you don't have to look far. I start by saying, look in the mirror and you will quickly see how broken it is. It is definitely an area that everyone needs improvement on me. Very much included. I make all kinds of mistakes. I'm a human it's part of the deal, but I'm at least aware of my mistakes and aware of the notion of improvement. And that's the first step. Most people are kind of stuck and say, I'm good. speaker Speaker 3 · 05:15 And they're not. speaker Speaker 2 · 05:16 That's so true. I mean, awareness is the first step to anything it's like any 12 step program admitting the problem is the first step to recovery, right? Any recovery program, they seem to have worked over the ages kind of. speaker Speaker 3 · 05:30 We're doing okay, right? I mean, ledge maybe. speaker Speaker 2 · 05:33 Yeah. Right, right. It could be who knows, but it's all about that awareness and being aware of yourself and your surroundings and the people around you and trying to understand it puts you ahead of so many other people right off the bat, because most people, they don't think they have any problems at all, no problems in the world. If you actually tell them or call them out on an issue, because you're trying to give them constructive criticism to help them improve, you often get a lot of combative behavior back at you or they go straight into denial. speaker Speaker 3 · 06:03 Well, denial is more than a river in Egypt. That's for damn sure. It's clearly one of those kinds of things where I get, why people are defensive, no one wants to be called out on their stuff. Having that open growth mindset, it's not easy, but it is a choice. And I fully agree with you. It's something that the best tend to get better, right? I mean, you see it all the time. You see people that really, you kind of look and go, man, that person's got it all going on. Well, it's probably not by accident that growth. It really does. speaker Speaker 2 · 06:34 Improvement is the hardest thing in the world. You have to look in to be able to see out. That's the thing is that you've got blinders on like a horse. If you are just not looking in, you're looking out any way that you want to see it is direct tunnel vision. It keeps you from getting that progress that you need to improve truly. How you expect to understand that you know that saying, it's a, you need to learn to love yourself before you can love somebody else. It's the same. You need to understand yourself and your communication before you could properly communicate with them. Probably. speaker Speaker 3 · 07:05 The hardest work you can do is looking internally, right? I mean, first you see some scary stuff that you may not want to deal with. To more than anything, you have no one else to blame. If it doesn't go the way you want it to. And so that can be pretty difficult. I can tell you this. I was actually in your part of the world. This is a couple of years ago. I was in DC and I was staying at the Hilton where Ronald Reagan was shot sidebar, interesting little factoid. And I was watching two guys. It was morning, like there's the kind of coffee, almost like a little, whatever that hotel is. Starbucks was. We're all kind of just eating a little breakfast, having coffee, doing our work independently. I see these two guys in military uniforms. I think they were Navy. speaker Speaker 3 · 07:46 It was very clear to me that in just a few hours, they were both going to individually be presenting. One guy was talking about how he was going to stay fully from right behind the lectern, not move at all, use his notes. He was going to be a plant in a planter. The other guy was all about, I'm going to Rome, I'm going to not use notes. I'm going to tell stories. I'm going to use the whole stage. They were both equally justifying their approach. Of course, laughed and sat in my own little silence, thinking about how both of them are inherently wrong in some regard, but that notion of justifying things of justifying, essentially everything, it is part of the human condition. I absolutely am guilty of it. I've done it today. I justified why I slept an hour later. speaker Speaker 3 · 08:34 I mean, we do this kind of justification in the moment. The truth of the matter is the moment you do that is when you subvert your own growth. I know we're maybe getting a little off what our intended topic was, but all of this stuff is interrelated to improve, to better, to do more, which actually helps your firm. Clearly, yourself, all those things are rooted in your own core beliefs, your own mindset. When you get stuck, there's only one person to blame. speaker Speaker 2 · 09:02 Yep. That's you, that's you. And that's the thing. The way that I look at it is that there are two truths in this world. I've said this a million times. There's a can. And I can't. The one that you decided to believe is the one that's true to you. The both synonymously to the true, but it is just a choice simply, that's it? It's choice is your podcast. speaker Speaker 3 · 09:20 Always this philosophical. We are very deep. I feel like this is a, philosophy with Robin Brian today. Very existential of us. I like this. speaker Speaker 2 · 09:28 Yeah. Existential is good. People need more of it because they avoid it at all costs because everybody has these existential breakdowns and all that stuff and they start freaking out. They don't want to look in anymore because it scared them. You need to get over that fear to make that happen. Right? You have to get over the fear because fear is just, I almost said, fears, weakness, leaving the body, but that's not true. Fear is something that is pushing against you that you need to push through. It's not something to block you. It's a barrier to breach. That's what it is. When you get over the fear barrier, that's when you start unlocking your potential. speaker Speaker 2 · 10:02 It's so important to get over that because the fear you have to break through it, you need to get over that fence because that's where all the spoils are. On the other side, speaker Speaker 3 · 10:11 I live in Phoenix, Arizona now, and it's summer, it's hot. We have rattlesnakes. It's real. And, we've had a couple of sightings in my neighborhood and I will admit that my fear is high. My action around that is to run like a scary little cat. I get far away. And I'm really trying for real. I know this sounds ridiculous and a bit bombastic, but the truth of the matter is I really am trying to improve because I recognize how ridiculous it is now rattlesnakes. That's maybe I have some built in, wise-ass of avoiding, but most of the stuff, it's not going to hurt you. Right? And yet I still have that same reaction. It is a matter of understanding and trying to overcome as stupid and sophomores is that example might be, it is germane to this conversation. speaker Speaker 2 · 11:00 That, that is true. That is true. Although it is something that can literally kill you. So there is that right? speaker Speaker 3 · 11:07 It was kind of nuts. They're called gopher snakes and their survival. Adaptability is they look like rattlesnakes. They've a very different head. It's much leaner, rattlesnakes have kind of this boxy hexagonal head. Of course a rattle go for snakes. They look just like them, but different head, no rattle. It's kind of crazy, but boy, I'll tell you. I don't like any of them. I'll admit it. speaker Speaker 2 · 11:29 Yeah, no snakes. Snakes are like little mini Satan's. In my opinion, there's just little devils going around. I mean, my God, how did that even happen in the world of evolution, but, to get back to it though, I do want to talk about the three CS of business, the thing that you like to drive in business, of course, we started with communication, but then that leads to clarity, conviction and connection. Those are the three CS behind communication was just so also, so happens to be a C, right? So that's pretty exciting. Clarity is something that people really do not drive by any means. I'm guilty of it where I'm not clear enough. I'll give someone very clear instructions. It's clear to me, but it's not clear to them, which means I don't understand that their communication style well enough, there's. speaker Speaker 3 · 12:15 A lot to this. I appreciate your bringing it up more than anything. When I say business communications is broken, it's often a combination of one, two, or all three of the three CS of, as you said, clarity, conviction and connection, and spending a little time on clarity for just a second. We have all read white papers or memos, even emails, stock reports, you name it. We've all sat through presentations, big, small keynotes that matter to little internal meetings, any number of things. We're kind of befuddled them left with a, huh? Why say that happens with such regularity that people don't stop and question it to the point of, there are just so many examples of meetings, often sales pitches, where there will be a complete and utter lack of clarity where a message is being transmitted. The receiver really doesn't know what's going on. speaker Speaker 3 · 13:08 For any number of reasons, they don't say I don't get it. I'm lost. Okay. People don't. speaker Speaker 2 · 13:14 Like to admit that they don't know something, because guess what? In public school, or even in private schools, they were ridiculed for not knowing the answer. And that's part of the problem. People would make fun of them. All. This is the dummy right over here and everything like that. People fear asking questions because they fear being wrong and making mistakes. The most successful people in the world lean toward failure because it's the only way to learn. speaker Speaker 3 · 13:36 Well, I'm certainly not one of the most successful people in the world, but I'm really comfortable being the guy in a group setting, going. I have no idea what you just said, and it's wildly powerful. You see a whole bunch of people on my side going, I didn't get it either. Everyone starts to say it from my perspective, that notion of clarity as a is it's in many ways a universal truth. It can absolutely be something that people can. I mean, when I say people, I mean, organizations, individuals, you can improve and think of it like from a sales pitch, it is so easy to get caught into the technical weeds of how a product, a service might work. It's so easy. speaker Speaker 2 · 14:16 No one gives a shit. No one can. They really don't. They don't, but it could be a monkey in a basement on a treadmill. That's lighting up a light bulb. If it makes you money, no one cares. It doesn't matter. It literally, it could be a pixie dust. It could be little, gophers and leprechauns, hopping on a trampoline. It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter. Product and feature selling is the weakest form of sales. It's the worst way to actually build a connection with somebody because all you're talking about is what it does, not how it will help them or how it will solve their problem or why they need to have it. Why is not explained by features? Everybody's got features, I've got features. You've got features. We all got features. Everybody's got features. It's like Oprah style. speaker Speaker 2 · 14:59 You got a car, you get a car. It's like, everybody's got features. No one cares. What is it that actually is that determining factor? And how do you create that connection with clarity? You can have conviction talking about features. Sure. But then you're sacrificing the other two. I could see that clarity and connection are very much connected to one another. Because if you're not, if you don't have a solid level of clarity with someone, how are you supposed to make a connection with them? It's a total disconnect. If you don't have a connection with somebody, that's usually because of the lack of clarity. I see those things as two parts of a whole. If you don't have conviction behind something, the connection is not made either. Cause it seems like a careless. It. speaker Speaker 3 · 15:38 Seems to me like you might be ready to buy my firm and take over for me. Just you keep going, right? You got it. This brother, speaker Speaker 2 · 15:45 Oh, I'm not trying to do it. It's just that it's my core beliefs. Right. I went through a lot of pain and suffering of not being able to connect with people very well. I've I had that problem because I think I was too smart for the, I mean, I'm not even joking though. Like in high school I used to smoke a shit load of weed because I had to dumb myself down, even talk to these people. That's what I did because I needed to get to that level. I wasn't able to connect with people at all. That was my form of trying to connect with people was doing that to myself, which is definitely not healthy. I mean, I've got nothing against it, but it's not, I don't do anything like that anymore because I've figured it out. speaker Speaker 3 · 16:24 There's a lot to what you just said. Even a step further back, this stuff is very real and it has much more power than maybe what it might seem on the surface. Let's get into this. I'm going to challenge you just touch. I want you to consider the notion that when you're in high school and you're using stuff like cannabis to lower your skill set, to be around people in a safe felt sense of belonging kind of way. Yes. That should say that a couple of things. One, you are using a very dangerous tool. Not that marijuana is so dangerous, but you're using brain altering chemicals to put yourself in a place where you suddenly feel like you belong, knowing Maslow's hierarchy. Wow. That's one of the most important foundational things is the notion of safety and belonging. speaker Speaker 3 · 17:15 You've changed your brain chemistry to try to feel that way. Exactly. When you get old enough, because high school, you're still a kid you're still under the rule of others. Once you're old enough, really the challenge is stop doing things like altering your brain and start finding the right group of people to be around. That's one of those kinds of things where this is adult conversation, right? This is not for, speaker Speaker 2 · 17:36 You're not aware that you have a choice when you're that young, either that these are the people who exist in my life and I have to fit within these people. Or what else do you have? You don't have anything else. speaker Speaker 3 · 17:48 Well, and to point you're a thousand percent, right? You're a kid. You are, it is what it is. As adults, we do have the freedom of choice. If you find yourself at odds with the world around you, I don't care if it's your family members, your coworkers, whatever it is, leave, if it's not the right spot, find the right spot for you. Based on your core beliefs. This is something that I talk about all the time, really the model that we've built to really help salespeople sell more, connect, better, have conviction, have that clarity. We call it the overlap. speaker Speaker 3 · 18:20 It's a simple Venn diagram and imagine three circles and where they overlap that little center bullseye, that's where the core belief of you as an individual, the core belief of the firm you represent and the core belief of the prospect, the person you're trying to sell to, they all intersect when they align is when you're good. Now that's in a sales life, but in life in human life, it should be the same way. You shouldn't occupy things that are disparate from your core beliefs. When you do that, when that in congruence exists, life sucks. You want to be around people that make you feel safe and that you belong. That is what core beliefs are all about. You don't need weed to make you feel. speaker Speaker 2 · 18:59 That way. Exactly, exactly. It took me years to figure that one out. Yeah, I would agree with you with that Venn diagram too. Part of, I don't want to be talking about my business too much, but part of what we do is that it is psychographic analytics. What that means is that we actually align those core beliefs, values, aspirations, interests, professional skills, and so on. That's how we're able to tie connections of people together and say, this is the person you get in touch with because you have an 86.2% probability of having a positive encounter that will result in an effective business relationship. We literally predict that with all the data that's out there, that's what we do. We could tell you that these people you've got a 1% or less chance of actually building a real connection with them. speaker Speaker 2 · 19:44 Why would you reach out completely eliminate this eliminates 95% of all prospects or leads generated through any service or anything. Rather than doing that 1% success ratio on cold outreach, a list of 10,000 people reaching out to 10,000 people for what a hundred conversations with the hell's the matter with you. But what is that. speaker Speaker 3 · 20:01 That's bad math with that is, I'll tell you what, the thing I love about this Rob, more than it was two guys to come up with all, this is the best sales people, the ones that crush quarter regularly, the ones that get the jacket at the end of the year and go on the president's club trip. Those guys being a non-binary gender neutral word there, please. The thing about those people that crush quota consistently, they jettison bad prospects quickly. They know when a deal is never going to happen, they do not waste their time, energy, and effort on stuff. They bad fit, move on. And. speaker Speaker 2 · 20:35 Now certification process, and also the power to say, understanding their right, their power and their initiative towards saying no, a bad fit. That buys is more detrimental than chasing one that won't. speaker Speaker 3 · 20:51 It sounds like you guys have built a tool to create empirical evidence to say, don't waste your time here, go here. Instead. That's. speaker Speaker 2 · 20:57 True. Qualified data into actual quantifiable data that is accurately predictable. speaker Speaker 4 · 21:04 So what we need. speaker Speaker 3 · 21:06 To somehow join forces with your very analytical approach with mine, much more esoteric, informative, emotional approach, get salespeople, both tools. They'll basically be, 10 for 10. They'll never miss. speaker Speaker 2 · 21:23 Yeah, exactly. We're actually looking for someone like yourself right now. speaker Speaker 3 · 21:26 Do you think you shouldn't buy my company? Make me an offer. I can't refuse, Rob. I got to go off and relax. I'm getting old it's time. speaker Speaker 2 · 21:34 Mine's like yours. That's the thing we need minds like yours. And. speaker Speaker 3 · 21:38 I just learned this. This is true. Actually, I'll give you a guest. First, the youngest retirement age, mandatory legal retirement age in the entire world. One country. It's 49. I am already older than that by a couple of years. What country do you think is that 49 years mandatory retirement. speaker Speaker 2 · 21:58 Mandatory retirement. Huh? That's gotta be here. Okay. Gotta be Thailand. Or it's gotta be the Philippines. It's. speaker Speaker 3 · 22:09 Neither. Here's my hint. We'll give you a second choice. We'll phone a friend named me, that country is very wealthy because clearly it has to be able to have a lot of really young retirees live for a long time and not drain the system. This country would like to we're thinking the United Arab Emirates. speaker Speaker 2 · 22:31 Near the UAE would make sense. I mean, they've got a budget right now of $789 billion just to try out technology. speaker Speaker 3 · 22:37 That's real. I think the net is you and I both need to retire because someone from the UAE needs to bias. Is there it is. speaker Speaker 2 · 22:46 Well, I don't want to sell because I want to build an empire. I'm ready to be done. Oh, well then no, we're going to have to continue this conversation. I'll be like, I don't want to hijack the conversation with it, but I hope everybody just learned something right there. speaker Speaker 3 · 22:58 Really need to be done. I'm with you. I'm not looking to build an empire. I've got a good 15 years left in me of hard work. It's, I'm doing the right kind of progress. Like you said, smart work. I'm saying no. speaker Speaker 2 · 23:10 Yeah. Saying no, because working with people you don't want to work with is detrimental. It takes up so much time and resources. So people need to understand that. That going back to the communication, the clarity, the connection, no doubt is that when people are not a good fit for your company, it is total sacrifice. There is no reason to ever sacrifice there's risk. You give so that you can take, you put things up at risk and that risk will warrant an award. If it is successful, there is a purpose behind it. Sacrifice is giving up something for absolutely no reason. Well, that's the difference. There's and then there's sacrifice. Sacrifice is if you don't know what the hell is going on, or you think it's necessary, that's that it's a delusion. It's absolute nonsense. There's no reason for that. speaker Speaker 2 · 23:55 It is all risk because if there's no reward, why are you doing it? speaker Speaker 3 · 24:00 You're right. You're right. I feel like I have taken us down the rabbit hole. So what I did there. speaker Speaker 2 · 24:07 Yeah. Right. That's great. Next thing here is the core beliefs based off of everything that we've just talked about is why don't more people, more firms, more companies, anybody really understand and do something about it. speaker Speaker 3 · 24:28 What you're asking a million dollar question that don't have the answer to. The notion of having a core belief is actually really simple on the surface. It's far more challenging to do at a high level than it might appear. It's wildly different than a mission statement or a vision. It really is. I started by telling you, when you asked me to introduce myself that as the founder of square planet, as a firm, certainly they're the same one as a mirror of the other. Our core belief is to elevate people that tells us what our actions are going to be. That means I'm not going to be a Dick. speaker Speaker 3 · 25:05 If I'm going to give someone some feedback, if I'm going to help them on their ability to communicate more effectively, if I'm really going to live my core belief of elevating people, I'm going to say it in a affirming, loving way. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to hold back the truth, but I'm not just going to be like, you suck, go away. I'm going to say that's one approach. Let me give you an altar that you might find more effective. It's a different mentality, but it's all about at its core. Knowing what we stand for the truth of the matter is that the vast majority of firms have never taken the time to really look at their origin story, why they exist in the first place. speaker Speaker 3 · 25:44 Things get in the way like committees and change of leadership. Some of this stuff is just almost unfathomable to me because we see brands, big brands like Ben and Jerry's or Tesla, big brands that people love. The reason they love them as because their core beliefs are so well codified they're so well-known to the masses. speaker Speaker 2 · 26:08 What creates the culture behind the business? And that's why apple has a cult. Following Tesla has a cult following. The only way that you can achieve that is by having the values and the culture of the company flow through the business. It is the blood and the veins of the company pumping around, making everything happen. When they have that disconnect. That's when you'll start seeing disasters happen, you'll start seeing, the companies that really just fall off stock, the stock price, just dips and everything. People only value things that they believe in, and anything is only worth as much as people think it's worth. That's why public companies it's about that next press release. It's about that promise. It's about what's in the pipeline, not what's closing it's about what's going to happen, not what will happen. speaker Speaker 2 · 26:51 It's about the idea that they're actually projecting toward the public of what they think it's worth anything. Perfect example is Nicola. They have nothing. They had nothing. They had a blueprint that wasn't even completed, half big blueprint, and then they go out, they IPO it and then, boom, what do they get about $450 million is what their value of their stock and what have they done? Nothing. What? There was a promise that they were going to do business with GE what happened, fell through the cracks. The promise that they were going to do business with USP S what happened, fell through the cracks. There is nothing. Did you know that they're. speaker Speaker 3 · 27:28 A client of ours? We did their humongous, big public launch or their Niccola one truck. That was our work. The biggest projects I did. Biggest single project I did in 2019 was something called Niccola world, where they launch their truck for the first time. Really interesting organization has gone through some massive upheaval, including the CEO getting, speaker Speaker 2 · 27:49 Yeah. Oh my God. He completely trashed the float value by just selling all the stock, taking all their money. It was such a Dick. Well, he's a, multi-billionaire now with a B, which is crazy that Dick he's a rich Dick. That's what he is. speaker Speaker 3 · 28:01 He has left behind, a better firm because he's gone. The people that are there's some really solid humans, really solid. That's. speaker Speaker 2 · 28:12 The thing is that the, but he was great, but the leadership was just, it was just awful. And that's the thing. When he left, he was the reason that business was broken, because it is a top down process of culture, of how people feel, how people communicate and handedly undermining the business just by being himself. speaker Speaker 3 · 28:30 The saying is the fish rots from the head down? That's right. Yeah. I, I'm not going to trash anyone there including him, just because that seems like a bad idea. I will tell you this, that, those that have remained, you'd be impressed. These are some really solid humans and that tech is cool. speaker Speaker 2 · 28:51 Cool. Don't get me wrong. I'm actually a pretty hefty investor in the business. I have a lot of respect for the company. I think they have a future. I just think what I'm trying to portray is how the public was played. Just by good communication. I'll give you. speaker Speaker 3 · 29:03 One that might feel more appropriate for the Joe average, who may not know this from that we're talking about. Let's go to McDonald's. Everyone knows McDonald's right. I have a really long twisted relationship, very high degree of affinity towards McDonald's. It's a big part of my career. Yet I can sit here and tell you that if you read my book, I repeatedly take them to task. It's a loving relationship because I want them to do well, but they just suck and have for some time, let me ask you this. Have you ever been or heard of an in and out burger? Do what in and out burger is. speaker Speaker 2 · 29:38 Absolutely very. speaker Speaker 3 · 29:40 Much a west coast thing, right? And so I'm out here in Phoenix for about, as we sit right now, as I sit maybe two miles from a minute in and out burger, it is the middle of the afternoon. The internet burger that I'm thinking of has a McDonald's across the street. I promise you, I guarantee you that right now there's a line at least 10 cars deep in the drive through, in and out and no more than one at the McDonald's across the street. It's like that every day, no matter what in and out knows exactly what they stand for. You're going to get a burger fries shake, move on. That's it, there are menus, like five items. It's that simple. McDonald's, that's the thing. McDonald's if you would like a salad, that's somewhat in their mind, healthy in air quotes. Great. speaker Speaker 3 · 30:24 If you would like a kid's meal of Mandarin oranges. Fine. Great. If you want B for senior citizens, unlimited refills for 45 minutes. Great. At the same time, if you want a special latte from MC cafe fine, they are so all over the board, you can't have diet food and burgers, fries, and shakes. You can't have cheap unlimited coffee and specialty barista made drinks. You can't, they don't know what they stand for. McDonald's made the choice and said, we stand for family and we're going to loosen our menu. We're going to have something for every generation of the family at a price that Americans can afford. They would fundamentally change the game and be back in it. What they are right now is a confused mess. That's not to rip on McDonald's per se. speaker Speaker 3 · 31:11 It's to use it as an example, because I guarantee most people listening and by people, I do mean, again, both individuals and the organizations they represent have not taken the time to codify their core beliefs. This shit is hard. It is not for the faint of heart. For. speaker Speaker 2 · 31:28 Me. We recently just did an exercise like that and my business, and it took us three and a half months to go through the process meeting twice a week, every week for one to two hours, each meeting, it took us three and a half months to know who were. It was that difficult. And the entire organization was involved. speaker Speaker 3 · 31:48 I can tell you this. I will gladly tell people to go read my book. It's a good book. It's also wrong, Rob. My book is wrong. I speak repeatedly about our core beliefs as a firm in my book. And I talk about it, make waves. I say, we're out here in the desert. There's no water. The waves we make are not of the aquatic variety. That's actually how we do our work. It's not why we do it. It's how I had it wrong. I literally wrote the book on it. This stuff is brutal. It took the pain of tour of 2020 and the pain of COVID. That was the only silver lining that I could really find is it actually helped me uncover my true purpose. My full reason to be why we exist is to elevate people. speaker Speaker 3 · 32:31 How we do that is by making waves. What is it? It's creating marketing and business messages that people could never do on their own. That's what it's all about. And it's not easy. I'm the guy that wrote the book on it and it took me a long time to figure out I was wrong. speaker Speaker 2 · 32:47 Yeah. Like ours it's to create time so people can achieve more. That's pretty good. That's it? It's not. What do we do? We build advanced artificial intelligence, dah. It's not any of that. Our mission democratize AI. That's just the mission. That's the one, but why to create time and help people achieve more. That's it. That's all it is. That's the idea. And look how simple apples is. For example, look how simple six senses know everything. I mean, it's so, oh, excuse me. It's so simple. That it's kind of ridiculous. That's the thing is that why and the why does not have to resonate at a functional perspective. That's what people make the mistake up. speaker Speaker 2 · 33:38 It's that they go down the functional, why are we doing this? Oh, well, we're doing, there's your mission? Why are we doing this? It's for, oh, that's your purpose? Why are we doing this? No. The why has nothing to do with what you're doing? It has to do with what you're trying to leave behind. What is the legacy thought? The legacy thought behind what it is that you're trying to push society forward with. speaker Speaker 3 · 34:02 There's one more part to it that I think is worth mentioning and you'll know exactly what I mean. Let's play this little game, have you in life, you have to here work with me. Rob, have. speaker Speaker 2 · 34:12 You ever cons, I'm not a liar. I know. Have you ever stumbled. speaker Speaker 3 · 34:16 Across someone and after a five minutes and no more than five minute conversation, have you been able to fundamentally change their political beliefs? Yes. I knew you were going to say that. Absolutely absolutely impossible. There is not. There's no one that in five minutes you can, it not beliefs, speaker Speaker 2 · 34:35 Not like switching from like conservative to whatever. I don't believe in actually any party partisan, anything it's actually, it's this whole convoluted thing that pisses everybody off. I changed a political belief, not beliefs, not like a whole thing. Just one small aspect. speaker Speaker 3 · 34:53 That's fair. I will say though, let me, for my little example here, note the idea that changing someone from left to right from liberal to conservative or the opposite. speaker Speaker 2 · 35:05 They're going to happen, right? You're not going to happen. speaker Speaker 3 · 35:07 What happens is without ever really being stated, it's kind of an underlying truth. When firms organizations work on trying to figure out what their core purpose is like creating time, which is brilliant. By the way, what can happen is there is a little underlying current that says, well, I don't want to piss people off. I don't want to eliminate some potential market share. That's wrong. You actually are trying very desperately to find your people. You're trying to find people that believe what you believe much the same way that you can't convert someone to your political ideology. We have our set of beliefs. That's just kind of the way it is. And sure. There's some gray area. You can have people that might decide to go one side or the other. speaker Speaker 3 · 35:51 What you're really trying to do is market by saying, here's what we're all about. These are the things we stand for. If you agree. Great. Come on over. When I say things like I'm here to elevate people. There is a large group of people who say good, I'm in. I'd like to. speaker Speaker 2 · 36:07 Be there. There's a whole nother group. New people want to shove them in the dirt, use them up. Then, pretty much they want to wrangle the sheeple. speaker Speaker 3 · 36:15 Exactly, exactly. Those people aren't for me, right? Like they have no desire to get a guy like me on board, but then there are plenty of commerce enough money. Some to be made of those that do want to elevate. That's why this, why notion this purpose, this core belief thing. Yeah. And. speaker Speaker 2 · 36:33 That ties into something that I love to talk about with people, because it's such an undervalued thing. It ties directly into business and to sales is that so many companies just target. We could do business with anyone. Okay. So thank you. I know. Okay. So you do this LinkedIn search. This is our ideal customer. You have 1.2, 6 million results. Now tell me this. I asked them this when they're like this, I'm like, so why, tell me, why don't you have 1.2, 6 million customers. Then you have 50. What? What's that all about? You don't you have 1.2, 6 million perfect customers. Why don't they do business with you? Oh, because we just haven't, we, I don't, it's just, there's no excuse for it. It's because they're not, they don't believe in anything. It's just that you're going to, okay. speaker Speaker 2 · 37:27 They have this title. They're in this industry, they're in these two really broad regions, like the U S the UK and the EU. Congratulations. That's like half the world's population. Like, what are you doing? so beyond that point though, the point I'm trying to make here is that there is a specific grouping of people where if your core beliefs are not founded in depth, what is the reason they will do business with you? Not a product. Nobody buys a product, they rent outcomes. When they're done renting that outcome and they find something better, they rent the new outcome. They move on. What is the thing that is holding them to the outcome, sir, they got an outcome. It's great. They can get another outcome from someone else's the same shit or better. What's holding them. There. It is the culture. speaker Speaker 2 · 38:11 It is the feeling that they get is the relationship that has been built. There are plenty of things that I don't buy simply because I like doing business with the other people because of what they believe in, what they do for me as an individual. Not absolutely. speaker Speaker 3 · 38:27 That's exactly how it works. Exactly. It's a motive at the end of the day, speaker Speaker 2 · 38:33 Buying procurement, anything like people say, oh yeah, no, this business buys from me. No, that person buys from you at that business. Why? Because of you, people buy to do business with you, not your business. They're buying you the ability to work with you. And that is such an understated thing. People don't really understand what that means. It's not like two buildings rubbed together and then money starts flying in the air. That's not how it works. I had Fred Copestake on another podcast and it's called PQ or partnering quotient. And that's how business is done. Your clients are your partners. If you don't treat them like a partner where they scratch your back, you scratch theirs and you take care of each other equally, you care about each other. That business isn't going to last very long. speaker Speaker 3 · 39:17 I don't know Fred, but I've seen lots of stuff that he's pumped out on. LinkedIn. He's real. He's a real bright guy. I liked. speaker Speaker 2 · 39:22 Fred. Yeah. I don't know. But I like him. Yeah. Yeah. We get along really well. He's check out the, I think it was the last podcast episode that came out. I just did one with him. It was fantastic. Hilarious too. It was funny as all hell. He seems like my kind of guy. Yeah, no, you get along with them for sure. You would absolutely get along with them. That's pretty cool. So, okay. I'll little aside right here. I know it's not a great transition, but I need to get into this is that best presenters and worst presenters. Now we're talking about communication. How businesses do business with one another? Honestly, I don't use a single presentation when I sell, unless it's an enterprise who specifically asks for it because who the hell wants to sit through a freaking present, use visual aids. speaker Speaker 2 · 39:58 Don't just talk in front of a screen. Nobody wants to watch that. You're just gonna put them to sleep. But, what is the best presentation you've ever seen hands down? speaker Speaker 3 · 40:08 No brainer, the author of good to great Jim Collins. I had the very fortuitous opportunity to work with him. He was speaking at a healthcare conference that were producing and I was assigned to him as the executive producer, as the content guy to get him up to speed, to make sure that he knew about our group, which is about 3000 people. So was a nice size group. He's, I mean, he's, Stanford professor knows, everyone knows everything really solid dude. The thing that struck me most about him is that he really listened, actively participated, made this group his most intense focus for a number of days. And then I remember his keynote presentation. He had 90 minutes on the agenda, 60 minutes to do his keynote 30 minutes to do Q and a it's a big ballroom. We were in Vegas, I think. speaker Speaker 3 · 41:02 And it was the kind of thing. Think like a stadium with big aisles and lots of seating. We had three stations where there were microphones dropped on stands, this, where people could line up and ask a question and this woman got up and she was in the main aisle. And she asked a really good question. You could see Jim just interests. Interestingly, kind of take it all in. You could tell this was a doozy. And he said she finished. He said, that's a great, let me think about this for a second. What felt like a week and a half was probably no more than about 20 seconds, but there were 3000 people in this giant ballroom, and you could hear a pin drop as he stood on stage in silent contemplated. Goodness, if that's a word. speaker Speaker 2 · 41:50 Contemplating, thank you, speaker Speaker 3 · 41:53 Chief word guy. I mean, it was amazing how every I was locked on him and then he gave this incredible answer that was complete and real. It was just like the thoroughness and thoughtfulness of both his approach and his answer. It was just spectacular. Was there. speaker Speaker 2 · 42:12 Thoughtfulness behind a statement or a response is so much more powerful than a quick jab at any given time. There's a, my head mathematician forest. I'm a company he's like that where you'll ask them a question, there'll be silence for like five seconds. What he says has the most value that you've ever heard. And you're just like damn free time. speaker Speaker 3 · 42:36 Right? And I mean, I get it for lots of reasons. I get why people would be uncomfortable. As a presenter standing in front of 3000 people in silence for 20 seconds, I get all that I do, but yet his ability to just be comfortable in his skin, be fully authentic about who he was. This was not a flashy, highly entertaining thing. It was just intellectually deep and the way he commanded the audience, his connection to 3000 people, the clarity of his medicine of his message and the conviction in his words, spectacular Jim Collins. speaker Speaker 2 · 43:13 Absolutely. I guess, well, I'll tell you my favorite, then I'll tell you the best. The best one was that I've seen is probably the release of the iPhone by Steve jobs. You mean back in the day, the original, yeah, it was fricking glorious. If you haven't seen it, Rob, speaker Speaker 3 · 43:31 Let me tell you about this, right? This is my world, right? This is the stuff I know. This is both live event, which is a huge part of our world and presentation. I have studied this release more than any human on the planet. Do when he did that? He used the same technical crew in the same exact location at the exact same time for seven days in a row to practice. He orchestrated, Steve did literally every single detail, this was Steve jobs. This was when it was still at the time, a humongous, publicly traded company with all kinds of money. Yet he was obsessed about getting it. Right? Think about that lesson. He knew that he had so much on the line. He knew that they had one shot to get it right. speaker Speaker 3 · 44:12 He did whatever he had to do to make sure that everything was perfect. speaker Speaker 2 · 44:18 My grandfather always said, there's never enough time to do a job, but there's always enough time to do it. Right. Well, spectacular. speaker Speaker 3 · 44:26 Words of advice from your grandfather and a lesson that so many people fail to. I presents for a living and I teach this stuff. Like last week I spoke at a sales conference up in Minneapolis. It's the kind of thing where, I'm talking about stuff that I know inherently and I've been on a bunch of stages, like hundreds and hundreds. Hell yes. I practiced not a little, but a lot. That's what it takes to be great. The good get better. That's just how it works, man. speaker Speaker 2 · 44:55 Yeah. And it's a constant practice. There's no winning. There is no winning. Yeah, because you've got to do it again and again. My favorite though, my favorite is Steve Ballmer, where he just runs in, jumps up Brittany shirt. He was all coked up, bright red sweating balls. Just, I love this company than all the Microsoft heads just start going nuts. It was like, I want to do that myself. I want to just run in like that. Have people go nuts for like a tech conference? Like what the hell was happening there? What, how did he find all these people? Such a good video of that though? No, speaker Speaker 3 · 45:32 I mean, I that's, those are the kind of clubs do a quick little YouTube search. It's such good stuff. So fun to watch. speaker Speaker 2 · 45:36 Both of those. Oh, it is glorious. It is one of the most glorious things I've ever seen just because the amount of, and it's a great word because the glory behind it is just absolutely absurd, but what a wonderful presentation. Yet with Steve jobs, my God, he is my top presenter. What he did, the amount of care, intensity and integrity that was behind every single word that he said and how it was presented is my favorite. So I have a background in design. I based every single presentation that I designed off of Steve jobs style and every single time, it was the best presentation of the bunch every single time. I studied him as well because my God, it is just beautiful. What he's done. speaker Speaker 3 · 46:17 The guy had some mad intuition. He knew. I mean, and of course, none of this is going to be groundbreaking here. Everyone knows that he was also big raging asshole. It was this kind of duality that made him so good. He really did not care if people thought good nor bad of him, he was just obsessed with the final outcome. speaker Speaker 2 · 46:38 What he, well, speaker Speaker 3 · 46:40 It was, he was obsessed with the outcome for the audience. He had it, right? The biggest mistake that happens in all of presentations, sales presentations, interviewing for a job, whatever it is people get selfish. They make it all about themselves. Really it's always about the audience of one audience of a million. The minute you recognize that it's about them is the minute it gets better. That's something that I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say it before it sticks within the world that I occupy a business communications clearly more. When people start to recognize that this selfishness is the thing that brings us down as a human race, it's the one certainly in the world of presentations, but just look around, look. speaker Speaker 2 · 47:23 The way our world. I think it's selfish, I think is a misdefined word, not to combat you on this. I think the is self-centeredness is the death of humanity. Self-centeredness but then selfishness is just taking care of yourself, looking for yourself. First, you have to put the mask on yourself, then the child, right? So it's taken care of, speaker Speaker 3 · 47:43 You're probably right on this. Here's the way I always put it this way. It cracks me up because it happens with too much frequency really before COVID. Even now, recently I fly a lot. Like I've got a million and a half miles on American. I mean, I fly, right. And so I'm in group two. I'm not always in group one. I am sometimes, but I'm using two, which is the first people on the plane kind of thing. I'm always stumped by the fact that I'm on group two. I get to my seat and I'm pretty efficient. I don't ever check bags ever. Never, never. I get there. There's always a bag, never check bags. Like it's the worst. Right? but there's always a bag over in my overhead. Always like, how's that possible? I'm group two. speaker Speaker 3 · 48:21 Right? And when it's time to get off the plane, when it's time to leave, I find out who it is. All of a sudden you see, this is the person that actually has taken three bags and used more than their fair share. More than their allotment. They are self-centered and you want that person, kind of dead. It's awful. It's that same kind of mentality. It's all about me. No man. It's about your audience. When you learn how to engage with your audience, when you know that it's really about the gift of presenting root word of presentation is present. As in happy birthday, Merry Christmas, you're giving a gift when you learn to give that gift, man. Good things happen. speaker Speaker 2 · 49:00 All I got to say is damn straight, but that's all I got to say to that. It's damn straight. That's it? That's it. Before we run out of time here, what is the worst presentation you've ever seen? I should say, what is the worst you've ever witnessed? speaker Speaker 3 · 49:19 I'll give you two that I witnessed. One was for Boston scientific. I actually really fell for this guy. He was a director of, like sales enablement. He wasn't the sales leader, but somehow some way was a, a sales kickoff conference. It was his job to announce where next year's trip was going to be. He did it survivor TV show style. They were stuffing out fires and doing all these little things in a pre-produced video, had a helicopter, all kinds of jazz. It was like this tease to then bring him to the stage. He was dressed the same way on stage as he was in the video. It was kind of a cool creative treatment. He gets on stage and maybe four or 500 people in the room. And the poor dude just froze. speaker Speaker 3 · 50:03 I mean like buckled, he was just done for, and it wasn't the kind of thing. That was obvious, like for a few moments, you're thinking is this part of the shtick? Is this the gag? Like what's. This moment of kind of uncomfortableness was a little tiny snowball that morphed into this ginormous one and much to his credit, the sales leader recognized that what was going on, hopped up on stage and kind of took this guy and let him off stage and took over for him. He just melted down that stuff happens. The dude did quit three days later. speaker Speaker 2 · 50:40 Wow. Was that bad? Is that bad? That's emotionally, it destroyed him. speaker Speaker 3 · 50:46 It really did. I mean, I can't say I blame them cause it was pretty, it was, and the audience wasn't against him, but it was just the context of that little creative treatment. speaker Speaker 2 · 50:55 Were they for like, it's painful to watch, especially if you've done it before, if you haven't seen it before, you're like, who is this guy? Come on. If you've been there, it's a whole different thing. You're just like, oh no, please don't please. Oh yeah. speaker Speaker 3 · 51:11 The one that really stands out to me because it was such a pivotal moment in my life. I was at the Del Coronado hotel in San Diego, beautiful property. We were, I was part of the team managing this conference. I was not beholden to be, stuck in a seat watching a keynote address. It was the chief medical officer from Stanford university hospital, chief medical officer, Stanford hospital. We can easily say this is Connecticut. speaker Speaker 2 · 51:39 Out west. Okay. speaker Speaker 3 · 51:41 We can easily say we're talking one of the top docs on the planet smart guy. Right. If there are 10 things you should never do during a presentation, he did 11 of them and I'm a worker guy. I'm sitting in the front row kind of a thing going, I need not stick around. I'm probably four minutes into this guy's keynote address. And it's like, I'm done. I got to get out of here. Five, 600 people in the room I get up. As I walk from the front towards the back, I see something that I just can't believe. And to this day, this is true. I can't believe it happened, but there were a number of people who had made a conscious choice to get out of their seats, name tags on. speaker Speaker 3 · 52:16 They were laying on the ground, sleeping through the top doc from Stanford university, his keynote address. It was the reason were there. If you think about the amount of energy, money, time, effort, et cetera, to get all those people away from family and friends away from their job on airplanes, in hotels, all the efforts that people like me had put in advance to have this guy up on a stage and suck that bad. That was actually the Genesis. That was the moment I thought I gotta do something about this. That's where square planet was born. Right then and there. I will still mark that as one of those moments of you just had to see it to believe it, but to think that people at a healthcare conference chose to lie on the ground because the presentation was that bad. speaker Speaker 2 · 53:00 That's so out of character for them too. Out of character, I mean, that's like next level right there. Oh yeah. That that's good. I've. speaker Speaker 3 · 53:08 Been, I've been a part of so many as both a presenter myself as a coach on these kinds of things, but certainly as a producer of events, I mean, I've seen so much my, maybe my favorite story though, Rob you'll appreciate this. This was me. It was before I lived in Phoenix, but the speech that I was doing was in Phoenix and I was in of a few hundred people at a really beautiful resort. I remember I could not get this one gentlemen to connect. It's the kind of thing where I know theory behind all this stuff and can put it in practice and have almost the unique ability to deliver my content while simultaneously recognizing and going, okay, what's going on? Let me adjust as necessary. speaker Speaker 3 · 53:49 I could see in this group of maybe 300 people, one guy that I just couldn't get him. I used a technique that's based on the notion of proximity. I had a wireless microphone on and so I got off stage and I very slowly made my way towards the sky. And I emphasized a certain point. I punctuated it by being literally right next to him, knowing full well that there is just absolutely no way that he's going to continue to not pay attention. External presenter is white right next to. speaker Speaker 2 · 54:21 Him. What was he on his phone or something like that. He was on. speaker Speaker 3 · 54:24 His phone. I called them out on it, live in the middle of presentation, like dude. And he had his name tag on. I forgot what his name was. Let's call him, Rob, I'm doing my thing. I've got 300 people fully engaged. I've got one that just could give two craps about me. What's going on here, dude. And it was, I was very playful. I wasn't a jerk about it at all. He was in the middle of selling his business. He was doing like a hundred million dollar deal. I basically kicked him out of the room. I'm like, are you kidding? Anything I have to say is utterly useless. There is nothing here. That is as important as what you're doing. Get outta here. speaker Speaker 3 · 54:57 It was fun and cool and a great moment, but it is one of those kinds of things where there's a lot you can do to keep the audience engaged. You just have to know the tricks and the tips, the techniques, and I do. I can put that stuff into place, but so many people suck and just don't do anything about it. It's painful. Yeah. speaker Speaker 2 · 55:16 I mean, that could have waited too. I mean, on his end as well, it could have waited. I mean, you don't need to give them a message within two minutes. It's not necessary. speaker Speaker 3 · 55:25 Certainly it was hard for me not to find some humor in all that. I mean, dude was going to make big bank. I mean, that's real money. Right. It's the kind of thing where he was certainly more focused on that than me and I totally got it. I wanted to give him a F a clean break. Everyone understands as opposed to sitting here doing this, like go focus on yourself. It's okay. It's good. You get a hundred million dollars. Go ahead. And so it was kind of. speaker Speaker 2 · 55:50 A fun book. I get that. I get that. I mean, that's more than reasonable. I'd have to say this. There's nothing that you can really be too upset with them on that. I mean, a hundred million dollars in the line. I'd be like, do what you gotta do, man. Go ahead. Serious enough. Anyway, I want to thank you for your time. We have run out of time here. Unfortunately, I could talk to you for hours, but yeah, no, it was really a pleasure. I want everybody to know that this is Brian Burkhart and he is the founder of SquarePlanet, which is an incredible company. If you're looking to improve communication and your business, if you're looking to really tie down those presenting skills and do something incredible with good intentions and ethical purpose behind it, he's your guy. Well, Rob, I really appreciate. speaker Speaker 3 · 56:35 The chance to be on your podcast. It's been a pleasure to meet you both here and before I hope it continues. I would just leave you with this. The last thing you said that notion of ethical a hundred percent brother well said, elevating people means doing the right thing. We take a very real, serious, hard line in the sand approach about that. You'll see that in all the things I put out on LinkedIn and other places, but check us out@squareplanet.com think round earth, square planet.com. I look forward to engaging with you and all your listeners. I really appreciate that. Oh, speaker Speaker 2 · 57:09 Of course. No, the pleasure was mine. And, everybody here again, I am Rob Turley, your host down the rabbit hole podcast. Co-founder co CEO at white rabbit Intel. This was brought to you by and sponsored by white rabbit Intel. You guessed it where you can no more, win, more end close. Often. It's a lot of fun sales enablement and sales intelligence, artificial intelligence that will help you make time. That's a hundred percent right there so you can follow us pretty much on any streaming platform. And, please, if you mentioned use hashtag D T R H podcast, that's all one word of course. Cause the hashtag and yeah, you can find it at podcasts dot white rabbit, intel.com. If you want the direct link. Anyway, thank you so much. Look forward to talking to everybody again or talking with everybody again. speaker Speaker 2 · 57:52 Next week, if you enjoyed this episode, follow down the rabbit hole podcast for new episodes weekly on Podbean, Spotify, apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Amazon music, Pandora, and YouTube. If you'd like to apply to be featured on the podcast or recommend a featured guest, please feel free to email us at the team at white rabbit, intel.com.

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